aftermarket parts/tuning questions (english)

[shay]

Hello everyone! I live in the United States and I don't speak french, so your patience is definitely appreciated! Ive imported an AV10 for my motobecane 50v (only the AV7 was available in the states) and have been running it in stock form since January. I've spent the past few months looking at aftermarket parts on www.la-becanerie.com and www.rcvteam.com, as well as mopshop.de. I have many, many questions about these parts and i was wondering if anyone here who speaks english could take the time to discuss with me any questions i might have as i build and tune this motor and purchase parts. thanks in advance!

-shay

[shay]

Traduit :

Bonjour tout le monde ! J'habite en les Etats-Unis et je mets › T parle français, donc votre patience est appréciée sans aucun doute ! Ive a importé l'année AV10 pour mon motobecane 50v (seulement l'AV7 était disponible dans les états) et les coupures ont été courir il dans la forme du stock depuis janvier. Je ‹ ve a dépensé le passé peu de mois regardent aftermarket partage un www.la-becanerie.com et www.rcvteam.com, avoir bien avoir mopshop.de. Je coupe beaucoup, beaucoup de bout de questions ces actions et je demandais l'if n'importe qui ici qui parle l'anglais pourrait prendre le temps pour discuter avec moi n'importe quelles questions je pourrais de l'as de coupures je construis et accorde ce moteur et merci d'actions d'achat en avance !

[fluke]

No problem 4 your questions.

Just present yourself here viewforum.php?f=2 before

[lowentity]

Don't worry, present yourself and we can help you after!
if you don't know what you can type in this section, say just:

hello, i'm come from USA, i adore mecanic and the famous mbk and i'd like to discuss with you about that! thanks for your helping

(and type that too, the traduction)

Salut, je viens des USA, j'adore la mécanique et le fameu mbk et j'aimerai discuter avec vous de ca! merci de votre aide

After (and even now) we'll can help you!

[neuronix]

Hi, i speak english fluently, but my knowledge of these parts is limited. So i will translate french posts for you as well as your questions

Je parle couramment anglais (né en afrique du sud ) donc je pourrais traduire vos posts (pas tous, les plus importants) pour lui.

[WariSesi]

Je suis du Ontario Canada puis je parle un peu de Quebecois - c'est presque francais...
no problem Shay I will help you here and at www.mopedarmy.com
Sesi[/url]

[CalimeroTeknik]

Don't worry shay, a lot of people here can speak english.

Ask your questions !

[shay]

Bien, ici nous allons.

J'ai cherché seulement des parties sur www.la-becanerie.com et www.rcv-team.com. sont de là-bas autres site web que je peux aller à qu'a une plus grande sélection de parties ? ive a eu la difficulté trouvant le liquide refroidi 70cc trousse de polini en particulier.

-Je vois que les parties ont classifié comme G1, G2 et G3...i a cherché le forum pour ceci et je comprends qu'ils sont des classifications différentes de moteurs ou courir les classes ou quelque chose similaire. je seulement ai vu aussi les parties de G1 et G2 à vendre, avec l'exception du ninja G3 quel ive a lu seulement est appelé G3 pour que gens l'achèteront. ce que fait chaque moyens de classification ?

-Quelques mois soutiennent j'ai acheté un ninja G2 et havent l'a installé pourtant puisque j'ai toujours le cylindre original et il ne pourrait pas venir même près à profite de lui. ive a lu qu'il travaille meilleur sur les trousses qui sont hautes dans les virages et isnt bons pour les plus grandes trousses de déplacement. est cet à peu près vrai ?

-je n'a pas de désir d'acheter un air une trousse refroidie et converge entièrement sur le refroidissement de liquide et j'ai plusieurs questions de cela. maintenant je considère le W DE G2 de polini de 50cc, ou probablement le 70cc trousse si je peux le trouver. je suis curieux cependant, quant à pourquoi cette trousse est si beaucoup plus chère que l'une offerte par bidalot et malossi. il coûte deux fois comme beaucoup de Le 70cc trousse de malossi sur mopshop.de.

-aussi, les trousses de bidalot et malossi sont notées comme les fac-similé. je sais qu'épuise (le ninja G2 et G3, le bidalot courant) sont référé à comme les fac-similé et aussi sont aussi limité parce que, comme je comprends, leur usage sur les rues françaises est illégal autrement. sont ces trousses limitées ou d'-accordé dans les façons aussi ? la trousse de malossi est un G2 fac-similé tandis que le doppler est un « courant le fac-similé ». que La différence ?

-Je projette pour courir une pompe d'eau (probablement le renault l'un qui obtient mentionné si souvent) et je suis sûr son nécessaire, mais il semble comme je vois alot de gens avec le liquide trousses refroidies que la course mise l'un. est pourquoi ceci ? fait le liquide trousses refroidies ont des thermostats ou ils ne sont pas nécessaire ?

Je m'excuse de la longueur de ceci, mais j'apprécie vraiment tous l'aide et la compréhension !

-shay




alright, here we go.

i've only been searching for parts on www.la-becanerie.com and www.rcv-team.com. are there other websites that i can go to that have a larger selection of parts? ive had difficulty finding the liquid cooled 70cc polini kit in particular.

-i see parts classified as G1, G2 and G3...i searched the forum for this and i understand that they're different classifications of motors or racing classes or something similar. i've also only seen G1 and G2 parts for sale, with the exception of the ninja G3 which ive read is only called G3 so that people will buy it. what does each classification mean?

-a few months back i purchased a ninja G2 and havent installed it yet since i still have the original cylinder and it would not even be able to come close to taking advantage of it. ive read that it works best on kits that are high in the turns and isnt good for larger displacement kits. is this pretty much true?

-i have no desire to purchase an air cooled kit and am focusing entirely on liquid cooling and i have several questions about that. right now i'm considering the 50cc polini G2 W, or possibly the 70cc kit if i can find it. i'm curious though, as to why this kit is so much more expensive than the ones offered by bidalot and malossi. it costs twice as much as even the 70cc malossi kit on mopshop.de.

-also, the bidalot and malossi kits are noted as replicas. i know that exhausts (the ninja G2 and G3, the bidalot racing) are referred to as replicas as well and are also restricted because, as i understand, their use on french streets is illegal otherwise. are these kits restricted or "de-tuned" in ways as well? the malossi kit is a G2 replica whereas the doppler is a "racing replica". what is the difference?

-i intend to run a water pump (probably the renault one that gets mentioned so often) and i'm sure its necessary, but it seems like i see alot of people with liquid cooled kits that dont run one. why is this? do the liquid cooled kits have thermostats or are they not necessary?

i apologize for the length of this, but i really appreciate all the help and understanding!

-shay

[CalimeroTeknik]

i've only been searching for parts on www.la-becanerie.com and www.rcv-team.com. are there other websites that i can go to that have a larger selection of parts? ive had difficulty finding the liquid cooled 70cc polini kit in particular.

Where is it ? I didn't find it !

-i see parts classified as G1, G2 and G3...i searched the forum for this and i understand that they're different classifications of motors or racing classes or something similar. i've also only seen G1 and G2 parts for sale, with the exception of the ninja G3 which ive read is only called G3 so that people will buy it. what does each classification mean?

Yes, the ninja G3 exhaust isn't a G3 part, it really works with a Polini RR cylinder !

G1, G2 and G3 are racing classes.
To be quick :

In G1 you cannot exceed 15mm the carburator, you cannot use variators that exceed 100mm diameter, the exhaust is free but can't be home made...
In G2 the carburettor is free, there is more freedom on the cycle.
In G3 everything is permitted, except exceeding 50cc.

-a few months back i purchased a ninja G2 and havent installed it yet since i still have the original cylinder and it would not even be able to come close to taking advantage of it. ive read that it works best on kits that are high in the turns and isnt good for larger displacement kits. is this pretty much true?

It is false. The Ninja G2 does not work with 70cc or more kits, and it does not work with the genuine cylinder.

It only works with 50cc kits like Malossi G2RR, or with your genuine cylinder if you modify it.
You will have to take your diagrams to 125/175, and you will need a 17mm or 19mm PHBG carburator and pipe (Doppler), plus the reed valves (for example Doppler ER3).

-i have no desire to purchase an air cooled kit and am focusing entirely on liquid cooling and i have several questions about that. right now i'm considering the 50cc polini G2 W, or possibly the 70cc kit if i can find it. i'm curious though, as to why this kit is so much more expensive than the ones offered by bidalot and malossi. it costs twice as much as even the 70cc malossi kit on mopshop.de.

The 50cc Polini G2 W will be OK with your Ninja G2 exhaust.
The Malossi G2RR will run well with the ninja G2 exhaust.

All 70cc kits will badly run with the ninja G2 exhaust !! They will need a Doppler ER1 exhaust to run the best.

Why is the Polini more expensive ? Well, I don't know. It isn't for the power, I know these kits.

Polini gives a lot of torque, and Malossi gives a lot of power. Make your choice !

-also, the bidalot and malossi kits are noted as replicas. i know that exhausts (the ninja G2 and G3, the bidalot racing) are referred to as replicas as well and are also restricted because, as i understand, their use on french streets is illegal otherwise. are these kits restricted or "de-tuned" in ways as well? the malossi kit is a G2 replica whereas the doppler is a "racing replica". what is the difference?

The difference within a G2 and a G2RR (RR means racing replica), is the quality. The RR cylinder is 2x cheaper, but does not run as well as the real cylinder kit.
You understood : RR kits can be used on road, but competition cylinders (G1, G2, G3 not RR) can't.

-i intend to run a water pump (probably the renault one that gets mentioned so often) and i'm sure its necessary, but it seems like i see alot of people with liquid cooled kits that dont run one. why is this? do the liquid cooled kits have thermostats or are they not necessary?

If the temperature of your engine is over 90°C, you must use a water pump, or the pressure will dangerously grow up !!!!!
This is how it must be determined to use a pump or not.

i apologize for the length of this, but i really appreciate all the help and understanding!

You're welcome.

[fluke]

i've only been searching for parts on www.la-becanerie.com and www.rcv-team.com. are there other websites that i can go to that have a larger selection of parts? ive had difficulty finding the liquid cooled 70cc polini kit in particular.

The 70cc kits are not allowed for sale in France.

You can find them in some others countries, for instance in the Nederlands http://www.50cc.nl/frameset_eng.htm http://www.50cc.nl/zoek_res_e.asp?TA=mbk51&GR=cilinder kit or in Germany http://mopshop.de/shop/index.php?cat0=4 ... 2c54173d88

[shay]

merci d'être si utile ! voici autour de 2 :

- les caractéristiques disponibles sur le liquide reproduction sont-elles refroidie du malossi G2 et les cylindres de Polini refroidis par liquide G2 ? il serait utile de savoir la HP, le couple et les tours maximum de tous les deux pour la comparaison facile.

- j'ai lu l'article sur le site Web de ventilxp pour préparer le kit du polini G2 pour l'utilisation avec l'échappement de Ninja G2 quel genre de préparation est nécessaire pour obtenir à la plupart de puissance hors du wtih de kit du malossi G2 l'échappement du ninja G2 ? le kit de malossi est-il plus creux dans les bas que des actions MBK ? peut-il être bien surmonté par l'accord de variator ?

- si je devais acheter le polini, est-ce que j'achèterais également le cas de polini pour m'assurer que le cylindre et le cas ont été correctement assortis, aussi bien que pour tirer profit de la valve tubulaire plus grande que je n'ai pas vu un cas offert par malossi ainsi je me demande si son possible de préparer le cas original pour assortir le cylindre de malossi sans enlever trop de la zone de joint pourrait allumette de I le cas de polini avec le cylindre de malossi ou suis ceci par pensée stupide ? aussi, est-il nécessaire d'employer ces valve et prise de malossi réglées avec le cas original ?

http://mopshop.de/shop/product_info.php ... 895aea79d0

ou est-ce que je peux simplement remplacer les valves tubulaires originales avec, par exemple, ceux de la fibre de carbone construite par Doppler ?

- des vilebrequins j'ai lu que la résistance de Doppler pas de phase jusqu'à son nom, est-ce qu'ainsi je l'ai régné dehors à moins que dit autrement ce que le vilebrequin est généralement considéré le meilleur ? teknix ? TNT ? emballage de bidalot ? emballage de giraudo ? la technologie de pointe de malossi ? aussi, pourquoi le conti CRX est-il tellement plus cher que d'autres à 295 euros ?

plus à venir....aussi, laissez-moi savent s'il est plus facile lire ce Français. j'ai utilisé un traducteur différent.


thank you for being so helpful!

here is round 2:

-are specifications available on the liquid cooled malossi G2 Replica and the liquid cooled Polini G2 cylinders? it would be helpful to know the HP, torque and maximum turns of both for easy comparison.

-i've read the article on the ventilxp website for preparing the polini G2 kit for use with the Ninja G2 exhaust. what kind of preparation is necessary to get the most power out of the malossi G2 kit wtih the ninja G2 exhaust? is the malossi kit more hollow in the lows than a stock MBK? can it be overcome well by variator tuning?

-if i were to purchase the polini, i would also purchase the polini case to ensure that the cylinder and case were properly matched, as well as to take advantage of the larger reed valve. i've not seen a case offered by malossi so i'm wondering if its possible to prepare the original case to match the malossi cylinder without removing too much of the sealing area. could i match the polini case with the malossi cylinder or is this a stupid thought? also, is it necessary to use this malossi valve and intake set with the original case?

http://mopshop.de/shop/product_info.php ... 895aea79d0

or can i simply replace the original reed valves with, for example, those of carbon fiber manufactured by doppler?

-crankshafts. i've read that the doppler endurance does not live up to its name, so i've ruled it out unless told otherwise. what crankshaft is generally considered the best? teknix? TNT? bidalot racing? giraudo racing? the malossi hi tech? also, why is the conti CRX so much more expensive than others at 295 euro?

more to come....also, let me know if this french is easier to read. i used a different translator.

[CalimeroTeknik]

plus à venir....aussi, laissez-moi savent s'il est plus facile lire ce Français. j'ai utilisé un traducteur différent.

Well, this needs speaking english to be perfectly understood, but it can help !

-are specifications available on the liquid cooled malossi G2 Replica and the liquid cooled Polini G2 cylinders? it would be helpful to know the HP, torque and maximum turns of both for easy comparison.

Definitely, no. The maximum rpm, power and torque do not only depend from the cylinder, and they can't be predicted.

I can only tell you that : the Malossi is only good at high rpm (6000-9000), and the Polini is better at average rpm (5000-7500). Make your choice : do you wish top speed (Malossi) or torque (Polini) ?

-i've read the article on the ventilxp website for preparing the polini G2 kit for use with the Ninja G2 exhaust. what kind of preparation is necessary to get the most power out of the malossi G2 kit wtih the ninja G2 exhaust?

There is nothing to do, they are made one for the other !

is the malossi kit more hollow in the lows than a stock MBK? can it be overcome well by variator tuning?

Sure it is, and not a little !!!
Yes, it can be overcame by a clutch and variator tuning.

-if i were to purchase the polini, i would also purchase the polini case to ensure that the cylinder and case were properly matched, as well as to take advantage of the larger reed valve. i've not seen a case offered by malossi so i'm wondering if its possible to prepare the original case to match the malossi cylinder without removing too much of the sealing area.

Malossi offers a case for his kit ! But I can't tell you where to find it...
And you can, without any problem, prepare the original case to match the cylinder. Most of us do it, not to pay for the adapted case.

could i match the polini case with the malossi cylinder or is this a stupid thought? also, is it necessary to use this malossi valve and intake set with the original case?

You could match the Polini case to the Malossi cylinder, but perhaps you will have to fill certain parts of the transfers with Epoxy resin...
With the original case, I think the best valves are the Adige or the Doppler ER3.

or can i simply replace the original reed valves with, for example, those of carbon fiber manufactured by doppler?

Yes ! And use the Doppler valves support, it's larger than the original valves support.

-crankshafts. i've read that the doppler endurance does not live up to its name, so i've ruled it out unless told otherwise. what crankshaft is generally considered the best? teknix? TNT? bidalot racing? giraudo racing? the malossi hi tech? also, why is the conti CRX so much more expensive than others at 295 euro?

Well, look at this : viewtopic.php?t=552
You won't exceed 12000rpm... Do not waste your money in a Doppler endurance...
The more RPM a crankshaft can support, the more expensive it is...

also, let me know if this french is easier to read. i used a different translator.

Well, this is better, but I speak english so... I didn't use it.

[shay]

thanks for all the help, calimero! i really appreciate it. what do you mean when you says 'valve support'? i'm hoping to finalize what i need to get within the next few months and get this off the ground. i'll keep you posted on it.

[CalimeroTeknik]

I mean do not only use the Doppler carbon plates on the original reed valve, use the full Doppler ER3 reed valve :



But I've now understood this was what you wanted to do.

[shay]

this is the setup ive decided on and if there is anything that i can change to make it work better i would love to know.

-liquid cooled malossi G2 rr (one question about this - i know that it is available in two varieties, one with an oval exhaust port and one with an exhaust port with a bar. how can i be sure that i recieve the one with the oval port?)

- stock case, with the ports matched to the malossi kit

-polini 4 petal reed and 19mm intake

-doppler ER1 crankshaft

-new bearings and seals

-19mm dellorto PHBG

-ninja G2 exhaust

-stock MBK allumage (unrestricted)

-bidalot variator, doppler spring and ER2 clutch pulley

i've also read the thread on preparing this kit and cannot understand it that well due to having to translate it. are there many improvements (if any) that i can make to ensure that i recieve the most power possible from this configuration?

c'est l'ive d'installation décidé et s'il y a quelque chose que je peux changer pour rendre lui le travail meilleur que j'aimerais savoir. - malossi refroidi par liquide G2 rr (une question à ce sujet - je sais qu'il est disponible dans deux variétés, un avec un port ovale d'échappement et un avec un port d'échappement avec une barre comment peut I être sûr que je recieve celui avec le port ovale ?) - cas courant, avec les ports assortis au kit de malossi - roseau de pétale du polini 4 et prise de 19mm - vilebrequin de Doppler ER1 - nouveaux roulements et joints dellorto PHBG de -19mm - échappement du ninja G2 - allumage courant de MBK (sans restriction) - variator de bidalot, ressort de Doppler et poulie de l'embrayage ER2 j'ai également lu le fil sur préparer ce kit et ne peux pas comprendre qu'il qu'en raison bons de devoir le traduire sont là beaucoup d'améliorations (si) ces je peuvent faire pour s'assurer que je recieve la plupart de puissance possible de cette configuration ?

[CalimeroTeknik]

Why don't you want to receive the G2RR with a bar in the exhaust ??

If I were you, I would want it, because the bar allows you to have an extra-large exhaust ! (exceeding 27mm wide, which is the limit for an oval port)

For the rest, seems good.

Keep me informed about your progress, and if there's something to do I will tell you !

[lowentity]

Why don't you want to receive the G2RR with a bar in the exhaust ??

If I were you, I would want it, because the bar allows you to have an extra-large exhaust ! (exceeding 27mm wide, which is the limit for an oval port)
For the rest, seems good.

Keep me informed about your progress, and if there's something to do I will tell you !

yes, i agree! more torque! and for the rest it's a really good choice!

[CalimeroTeknik]

Why don't you want to receive the G2RR with a bar in the exhaust ??
If I were you, I would want it, because the bar allows you to have an extra-large exhaust ! (exceeding 27mm wide, which is the limit for an oval port)

yes, i agree! more torque! and for the rest it's a really good choice!

And because power is torque*rpm, you will increase the power, so your top speed, and not only your acceleration.

So, could you explain, shay :

Why don't you want to receive the G2RR with a bar in the exhaust ??

[lowentity]

And because power is torque*rpm, you will increase the power, so your top speed, and not only your acceleration.

yep! but i don't like to speak with power, it's only to compare! i prefer torque, in a race it's THE stuff you need to concentrate on if you'll want to win

but i agree totaly with you calimero

(heu pourquoi on parle anglais entre nous? we are très con )

[CalimeroTeknik]

(heu pourquoi on parle anglais entre nous? we are très c** )

C'est pas entre nous qu'on parle anglais, on parle tous les deux à shay je te rappelle, qui parle anglais !
Et puis dans tous les cas c'est pas un mauvais exercice, ça fait pratiquer !

Bref...

[shay]

i thought that the exhaust port with the bar did not flow as well as an oval of comparable size...only 85% as much or something? also, i have read that the bar tends to expand out into the cylinder if it gets too hot. i assumed that an oval would flow better and be less problematic so thats why i wanted that one.


j'ai pensé que le port d'échappement avec la barre n'a pas coulé comme un ovale de taille comparable... seulement 85% autant ou quelque chose ? aussi, j'ai lu que la barre tend à augmenter dehors dans le cylindre si elle devient trop chaude je supposait qu'un ovale coulerait mieux et serait ainsi les thats moins problématiques pourquoi j'ai voulu celui-là.

[CalimeroTeknik]

Well, the bar only expands when the carburettor is'nt well tuned. (too much air)

For the rest, the bar allows you to have en extremely large exhaust, so it is better for performances.